Daredevil

[Ian Jane]

I learned that Steven DeKnight, who did the great Spartacus series, was the showrunner for the first season only so that may have had something to do with it.

I was not aware of that, but you could be on to something for sure.

[Randy G]

The third Netflix season was, in hindsight, not great overall, despite having some great moments.

I learned that Steven DeKnight, who did the great Spartacus series, was the showrunner for the first season only so that may have had something to do with it.

[Ian Jane]

Liked it. Probably the best since S1. I thought the Netflix show lost the plot in the later seasons.

The third Netflix season was, in hindsight, not great overall, despite having some great moments.

[Randy G]

Anyone else watch this? I enjoyed it. It isn't perfect, there are some serious logic gaps and questionable character motivations at times, but I thought the acting was strong and the action scenes hit a lot harder than I expected. Disney, to my surprise, didn't water this down at all. That last episode was pretty insane. Looking forward to season two and the Punisher special that we're supposedly getting later this year.

Liked it. Probably the best since S1. I thought the Netflix show lost the plot in the later seasons.

[Ian Jane]

The slowest burn ever perhaps.

I normally have no patience when people say 'it took x,y,z too long to put on the suit' etc., but it took too long for x,y,z to put on the suit. Sounds like it might be worth finishing though.

Ha, it did take a while for him to put on the suit, no doubt. But the last two episodes, I thought, were excellent. Curious what you think if you do finish it.

[agent999]

The slowest burn ever perhaps.

I normally have no patience when people say 'it took x,y,z too long to put on the suit' etc., but it took too long for x,y,z to put on the suit. Sounds like it might be worth finishing though.

[Ian Jane]

Anyone else watch this? I enjoyed it. It isn't perfect, there are some serious logic gaps and questionable character motivations at times, but I thought the acting was strong and the action scenes hit a lot harder than I expected. Disney, to my surprise, didn't water this down at all. That last episode was pretty insane. Looking forward to season two and the Punisher special that we're supposedly getting later this year.

[Ian Jane]

Everything you guys are saying in terms of how the comics compare to the show is spot on, but I'm able to enjoy them both as separate entities. I'm assuming they went with 'Born Again' because the show is a restart of sorts, and of course for the name recognition it brings from Miller and Mazzuchelli's work on the title, I don't think it's supposed to be a literal adaptation and I'm not sure a literal live action version would even work, because as you guys point, elements of it are ridiculous and what works on the page doesn't always work on the screen. Still, I enjoyed the 1st episode of the new series quite a bit. I like the acting and have no problem with the dynamic between Matt, Foggy and Karen. I was actually happy to see the original cast members come back and I look forward to seeing Bernthal back as the Punisher. It'll be interesting to see where this series goes from here - it may indeed get ridiculous if they start bringing in a lot more superhero characters. Obviously White Tiger is in the show but are we getting Typhoid Mary and Bullet? Is this going to start pulling from the Nocenti/Romita run (which I liked a lot but will admit that nostalgia plays a big part in that)?

[Scott]

I still can't put my finger on it but the interactions between Matt, Foggy and Karen in these DD shows just doesn't hook me. Maybe it's the script, could be the acting...it feels false, and I can't get connected to those three, which is obviously crucial to enjoying this program.

As with most people who are fans of the DD comic I adore the work of Frank Miller, Klaus Janson and then David Mazzucchelli on the title, and the appeal of that series in the 80's had as much to do with the way in which these acrobatic heroes and villains were visually depicted on the page as it did with the writing. So much of what makes those runs classic is the dynamic, and sometime elegant drawing. On the flipside of that is the Bendis/Maleev era stuff, which I also enjoy, but is much more ground & pound, dirty street fighting in terms of the art, and as with most thing Bendis, wordy out the ass. This show feels more like that to me (although not as well written as the Bendis, or even Brubaker runs), so to call a series "Born Again" yet take most of the visual as well as story inspiration from the late 90's run creates a disconnect for me. I've seen pics of Frank Miller on the Born Again set and at a premier and while the reverence there for a comics creator is appreciated, I don't think what we're getting is paying homage to the artistic rendering Miller and Janson brought to their run, or to Mazzucchelli's more refined, cleaner aesthetic, and I think that speaks to the show's creators not caring to understand the artistic end of things, which is true of most comic book adaptations. I don't mind the attempt to give us a more reality-based version of these characters, but by taking that route the production needs to be rock solid and the DD television stuff hasn't been my cup of tea in that regard. I wish it'd just lean further in either direction - give us a much more grounded, street level aesthetic (and tighten up the writing) or make an effort to be more venerable to the look of the Miller stuff. What we have now is too middling for me.

The novelty of this live action stuff just does nothing for me. Like you said, the magic of the comics is in the style and none of these shows or movies has any of that. There's no elegance or grit. it all feels very rote. Because of Guardians of the Galaxy they've leaned into being goofy for some of these adaptations, like in Suicide Squad or Thor Ragnarok. But the best of these comics blends the serious with the absurd without the knowing winks and makes it all work. Born Again in the comics has Gladiator in his wild outfit fighting Daredevil, Karen Page strung out on drugs and selling out Matt Murdock, Matt being nursed back to health by a nun who's his mom, then ends with a battle between Nuke and Captain America. It's nutty and serious and absurd and Mazzucchelli's work diffuses it into a stylish elegant tale that somehow works and transcends the serialized superhero genre. I'm not sure if we'll ever get a filmed adaptation that can do all that and make it work.

I adore the Brubaker run btw but the Bendis run does nothing for me. These shows do seem to be pulling more from that era but they don't come close to capturing the cool style of Michael Lak's art, or Brubaker's pulpy writing. It all seems so flat. They keep putting titles on these from the comics that never in a million years can match the comics; Dark Phoenix, Day's of Future Past, Born Again, The Dark Knight, Winter Soldier, etc. They're all in name only with only the barest similarity to the source material. I'm surprised they didn't name that Joaquin Phoenix Joker movie The Killing Joke.

[agent999]

Oh my God, they killed <REDACTED>

YOU BASTARDS!

[Toyboy]

I still can't put my finger on it but the interactions between Matt, Foggy and Karen in these DD shows just doesn't hook me. Maybe it's the script, could be the acting...it feels false, and I can't get connected to those three, which is obviously crucial to enjoying this program.

As with most people who are fans of the DD comic I adore the work of Frank Miller, Klaus Janson and then David Mazzucchelli on the title, and the appeal of that series in the 80's had as much to do with the way in which these acrobatic heroes and villains were visually depicted on the page as it did with the writing. So much of what makes those runs classic is the dynamic, and sometime elegant drawing. On the flipside of that is the Bendis/Maleev era stuff, which I also enjoy, but is much more ground & pound, dirty street fighting in terms of the art, and as with most thing Bendis, wordy out the ass. This show feels more like that to me (although not as well written as the Bendis, or even Brubaker runs), so to call a series "Born Again" yet take most of the visual as well as story inspiration from the late 90's run creates a disconnect for me. I've seen pics of Frank Miller on the Born Again set and at a premier and while the reverence there for a comics creator is appreciated, I don't think what we're getting is paying homage to the artistic rendering Miller and Janson brought to their run, or to Mazzucchelli's more refined, cleaner aesthetic, and I think that speaks to the show's creators not caring to understand the artistic end of things, which is true of most comic book adaptations. I don't mind the attempt to give us a more reality-based version of these characters, but by taking that route the production needs to be rock solid and the DD television stuff hasn't been my cup of tea in that regard. I wish it'd just lean further in either direction - give us a much more grounded, street level aesthetic (and tighten up the writing) or make an effort to be more venerable to the look of the Miller stuff. What we have now is too middling for me.

[Ian Jane]

More thoughts later but I was really impressed with episode one of Born Again. Great opening fight, great dynamic between Cox and D'onofrio and some great plot twists.

[Ian Jane]

[Ian Jane]

Possible spoilers regarding some cameos in Born Again.

https://bamsmackpow.com/unexpected-m...vil-born-again

[Ian Jane]