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[Mark Tolch Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mark Tolch]

I never shill for stuff like this, but Mike Scondotto's NY hardcore band INHUMAN is a really friggin' great group. Some of you will remember Mike from AVManiacs...his bandmates Joseph James and STeve Gallo are present and former members of Agnostic Front. Anyway, they're trying to put out some vinyl, which is costly, and have looked to Kickstarter to help them do it.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...re-lp-on-vinyl

Like i said, i normally don't promote this kind of stuff, but these guys are really close, and I'd like to see them pull it off. Aside from being a good band, they're some of the nicest dudes ever, and as some of you may know, music as a career doesn't always pay the bills. So if you can throw a few bucks their way in the next couple of days, please find it in your heart to do so. :)

[Tom K Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tom K]

I know Mike and like his band a lot...

But the kickstarter route is the wrong way to go about things...

[Mark Tolch Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mark Tolch]

I'm not that familiar with it...I recall hearing about a few cool projects that never would've happened without it. Can you elaborate?

[Tom K Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tom K]

It may just be my ancient way of thinking Mark...

This has nothing to do with Mike or his band, just my general views on Kickstarter...

Being in struggling bands for many years myself, I would never even think of having fans finance a recording. It just screams laziness and self entitlement. To me, it also screams that a band not be ready to release something. I have seen posting by many bands on FB using Kickstarter and I just shake my head. What's next? Bands asking fans to buy equipment for them? Start a band fund, plays some shows, sell some merch, and save your money.

There has always been an evolution. A band would send out rehearsal tapes to people and clubs in the hope of securing some cash to record a proper demo. If a proper demo was recorded, that would be shopped, traded, sold, etc, all while generating a buzz. Sometimes, a band could get lucky and score a deal right off a first demo...others would release more demos, maybe a 7". The point was, there was a discography in a sense that demonstrates motivation and stability. Not to mention a band's desire to keep working hard and improving their craft.

Nowadays, bands skip all those steps and feel, we are a band, so we're going to release a CD. They spam FB, My Space, and Reverbnation and may get picked up by a label just because of a high friend count. Now, because of technology, there are way too many bands and not enough fans. To many releases, shows, and tours. A band may get lucky and get a deal, go out on tour, and break up during because they don't know how to handle it.

Our fourth album is due to be released shortly. I had a discussion with the label about it being a possible vinyl only release. As much as I wanted that, I said no, just stick with CD. I can move more of those plus the costs associated with it didn't make sense to me. I made that choice. We'll see if it is the right one.

Anyway, it does not cost a lot of money to record. With the way technology is now, studios are no longer required. So a band could record on the cheap and sound great. Pressing is what will cost, especially vinyl. A label will not want to get behind a vinyl pressing unless they know they are going to get a return. And even still, the return is not that great. So a band has to be really known with a big fanbase to provide the justification.

[Mark Tolch Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mark Tolch]

Fair enough, Tom, I get what you're saying, a lot of good points. I have to agree that you can record and press discs for cheap, my last band recorded and put out CDs for dirt cheap. Truth be told, i'm not familiar with pressing vinyl or the costs involved, so I'll definitely go with your expertise on that.

As for buying into it, I would say that it's a possibility that my friendship with Mike and Joe made me more inclined to donate than to "Band X"....also, I feel that receiving a copy of the album and a shirt was a fair exchange for the money I put out...I equated it with advanced orders or presales when it comes to smaller companies who require cash up front to finance their product.

That being said, thanks for elaborating, as i said, good points made. What's the name of your band, anyhow?

[Tom K Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tom K]

That's why I wrestled with posting thoughts on this as Mike is a great guy in an awesome band...I would like to donate, but it goes against what I believe...kind of like the whole "pay to play" thing, but that is another topic...lol

My band is Cardiac Arrest...been doing that since 06 (along with my other band Severed since 1995) and have a lot of the same struggles as many other bands...we don't really see any money and if we do, it goes back to whoever we owe or towards merch for the future.

I am happy with where we are at. But it has been a slow progression...we are able to call some of the shots now and do get taken care of at shows rather than getting fucked over. We can pick and choose now, which is a lot better than having to do something.

[Mark Tolch Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mark Tolch]

Cool stuff, Tom! I'll check your band out. And yeah, i was going to edit my other post to say, after talking about why I donated money...that I don't think that Mike and his band are in the same category as bands who can't be bothered to put any of their money into their own stuff, and want their "friend"community to do it for them. But I think we're on the same page, there. :)

[Tom K Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tom K]

A little off topic here but I saw something the other day on FB where a band was using a kickstarter type site to ask for donations for a tour van because they want to branch out and can't afford one...So I guess bands asking for everything is becoming the norm...

[Mark Tolch Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mark Tolch]

I was just discussing some of these projects that I've looked into since our conversation on here. And it's pretty ridiculous what some people are asking for on kickstarter and other sites. So i'm with ya on that one.

[Tom K Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tom K]

Looks like Mike got his album done...I don't have a link, but I saw him promoting the pre-order on Facebook...

Coolness!

[Mark Tolch Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mark Tolch]

He did indeed...I contributed enough to get a copy of the album and a t-shirt, which is good enough value for what i paid. :-) I have to tell you, though, Tom, I've been looking at even more kickstarter and especially indiegogo projects, and i'm blown away. Somebody trying to raise money because their pet needed surgery which they paid 2 grand for and then died, and they "shouldn't have to deal with heartbreak as well as financial problems". Uh, you bought a pet. It's a responsibility. Yeesh.

[Tom K Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tom K]

It is the entitlement era...

I gave to a friend with something similar (it wasn't kickstarter) who got in a wreck and was in pretty bad shape...no insurance, etc...

I just don't like asking...sure, I'll ask people to come to a show we play, but to give me money so I can buy a van to get to the show is a bit much...

Again, I like Mike and his band...and I doubt that kickstarter fully funded the album cost...but, every little bit helps...I would never do that...

Usually when I see those, there is an initial response and then it tapers off and just disappears...I'm glad your getting bonus stuff out of that too...

Kickstarter and Indiegogo seem to be big in the indie film scene..."I have a camcorder and software, so I am not a film maker...give me money so I can make a movie"

[Mark Tolch Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mark Tolch]

Yeah, some of the movie startup/actor expense ones are ridiculous. If you want to make movies, go do what other people who make movies had to do...work at it. Jeez. I know that risks are....risky, but come on!

[Paul Casey Frito Bandito Find all posts View Profile Close Paul Casey]

I dig Kickstarter for games or other cool products. Here are two I've contributed to:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...-atlantic-city
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...production-run

[Mark Tolch Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mark Tolch]

Well, my first experience with Kickstarter wasn't a good one. I donated to support the release of INHUMAN's record on vinyl, with a 41 dollar contribution for a shirt and record. Thankfully, i'm only out 40 bucks. A good number of people got their stuff, but for those of us who didn't, neither Scott (the starter of the campaign), nor his company, 1124 records, have bothered to reply to multiple emails asking where my stuff is. 3 months after the stuff was sent out, i've given up any hope of seeing it, despite Mike S.'s intervention. No response at all. What I didn't realize is that kickstarter isn't like paypal, you can't try to recoup your cash if you don't get stuff. Oh well, lesson learned and it's only 40 bucks, but it sucks when you try to do right in supporting an indy music project and get hosed. I guess i helped cause the record got put out, but would've been nice to have been able to hear it.