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the original HALLOWEEN and its sequels

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  • #31
    John Carpenter cleverly avoided an R rating. He sets up a murder shot by shot. Then he cuts away from it. Instead of the showing the knife go in, he shows someone discovering the body and screaming in reaction. We see the aftermath of the violence instead of the violence itself. The exceptions are the first murder when Michael kills his sister and the last murder when Pleasance empties his gun into Michael. He shows the act of violence at the beginning and the end. I haven't seen the sequels starting with 4, but I'm guessing they are not edited the same way.
    "I've been to college, but I can still speak English when business demands it."
    - Raymond Chandler, 1939.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Alex K. View Post
      Some people think the first Nightmare on Elm Street is the best, others think Part 3, and there's a few that think New Nightmare was the best.
      I'm in the camp that believes Part 2: Freddy's Revenge is the best and darkest film in the series. It's very clever and metaphorical too! I think it's genius.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Body Boy View Post
        I'm in the camp that believes Part 2: Freddy's Revenge is the best and darkest film in the series. It's very clever and metaphorical too! I think it's genius.
        Not sure it beats part one....but I too think FREDDY'S REVENGE was a great movie that I was surprised turned out the way that it did....certainly better than the other Freddy sequels (although part 3 gets props because it took the whole "it's a fantasy i can do anything in my dream" idea and ran with it..a very clever way to go....).....I prefer the dark stuff though!!

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        • #34
          Let's stay on topic about Halloween.

          The original A Nightmare On Elm Street and its sequels have their own thread:

          http://www.rockshockpop.com/forums/s...8152#post38152
          "I've been to college, but I can still speak English when business demands it."
          - Raymond Chandler, 1939.

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          • #35
            the original HALLOWEEN and its sequels

            The first is a classic and well done film but ironically I find the second third and fourth entries more rewatchable.

            I often get bored with the first but the sequels are more entertaining for me because of Pleasance's wild overacting and the more classically exploitative elements.

            And the third one is both fun and original.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Horace Cordier View Post
              The first is a classic and well done film but ironically I find the second third and fourth entries more rewatchable.
              That's not ironic, Alanis.

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              • #37
                the original HALLOWEEN and its sequels

                F you. It's "cute" posts like this that make me want to take a slug of cheap whiskey and start waving a loaded gun around.

                Loomis style.

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                • #38
                  HALLOWEEN is a Slasher film as it's success started the Slasher genre. (I'm not saying it's the first slasher)
                  However the ending of not being able to kill Michael puts it into the supernatural.

                  But saying it's not a Slasher film because it's slow or does not have enough kills is wrong...the "slasher film" like any other sub-genre evolves.

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                  • #39
                    Well Halloween did set the precedent for masked killers, at least in the US (In Italy masked killers had been de rigueur since the early 60s.), but just because everyone and their grandmother tried to cash in on Halloween's success doesn't make the film a slasher flick. If we look at the basic elements of what came to be slasher flicks we can see that Halloween had a masked killer, but the film lacked to overt sadism and the over-reliance on gore that the true slasher flicks had. As JC stated, he was out to make a film that would scare people, not disgust them. As such, I really don't think Halloween is a slasher film in the way H2 or the later sequels were.

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                    • #40
                      The thing that bothered is me is why, specifically why is Michael Myers immortal? Jason did die but it was a bolt of lightning that made him into a zombie. And from thereon it was electricity or magic that brought him back. Freddy and Pinhead were demons so of course you could come up with any bullshit to bring them back. Chucky they kept coming up with ways for his body to be rebuilt and bullshit bringing him back. But we never got an explanation why Michael is immortal.
                      "Ah! By god's balls what licentiousness!"

                      Marquis de Sade, The 120 Days of Sodom.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Alex K. View Post
                        The thing that bothered is me is why, specifically why is Michael Myers immortal? Jason did die but it was a bolt of lightning that made him into a zombie. And from thereon it was electricity or magic that brought him back. Freddy and Pinhead were demons so of course you could come up with any bullshit to bring them back. Chucky they kept coming up with ways for his body to be rebuilt and bullshit bringing him back. But we never got an explanation why Michael is immortal.
                        Why is MM immortal? Because they need to keep making money, that's why! :)

                        The ending of the first film is, I think perfect, in that it leaves it to you, the viewer, to come up with your own explanation as to what happened to MM. Was we human? Wasn't he? Where happened to him at the end of the film? These questions the viewer can supply for themselves. They really don't need to have mysterious plot elements spelt out for them in giant bold faced explanations.

                        Personally, I like the idea that MM just dematerializes at the end of the film. This idea is somewhat established at the film's end with the montage of stills of the various MM locations. JC, if I'm remembering correctly, sort said that's how he interpreted his ending, that MM is sort of anywhere and everywhere now.

                        I also remember JC talking about an idea he had for another MM film long before H4 was made. He said something to the effect that in this proposed sequel MM would rematerialize as a result of the combined guilt and fear the citizens of Haddonfield had. It was an interesting concept, and one that I thought was much better than the H4 premise.

                        But getting back to the actual sequels for a minute, I always wondered what H2 would have been like if TLW directed had directed it and used the script idea he wanted to use.
                        Robert W
                        Senior Member
                        Last edited by Robert W; 09-11-2012, 10:55 AM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Robert W View Post
                          Well Halloween did set the precedent for masked killers, at least in the US (In Italy masked killers had been de rigueur since the early 60s.), but just because everyone and their grandmother tried to cash in on Halloween's success doesn't make the film a slasher flick. If we look at the basic elements of what came to be slasher flicks we can see that Halloween had a masked killer, but the film lacked to overt sadism and the over-reliance on gore that the true slasher flicks had. As JC stated, he was out to make a film that would scare people, not disgust them. As such, I really don't think Halloween is a slasher film in the way H2 or the later sequels were.

                          The graphic violence which is typical of slashers today EVOLVED from films like HALLOWEEN.
                          That only means HALLOWEEN is not a typical "slasher" film as we know them today but it's STILL a slasher film along with films like PSYCHO.
                          The "slasher sub-genre" was coined to describe the new trend that HALLOWEEN sparked.

                          Look up SLASHER FILM in any dictionary.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Koukol View Post
                            The graphic violence which is typical of slashers today EVOLVED from films like HALLOWEEN.
                            That only means HALLOWEEN is not a typical "slasher" film as we know them today but it's STILL a slasher film along with films like PSYCHO.
                            The "slasher sub-genre" was coined to describe the new trend that HALLOWEEN sparked.

                            Look up SLASHER FILM in any dictionary.
                            ^ This guy right here is correct. Slashers not being bloody or sadist (which I fail to see any more sadism in most slasher flicks post-Halloween than Halloween itself...) does not omit them from being slashers. I mean... it just doesn't. Otherwise Final Exam isn't a slasher. I mean, seriously.

                            This is worse than when people say that The Texas Chainsaw Massacre '74 isn't a slasher. Maybe not in the last half, but come on people. Mortuary has a low body count, but it's also a slasher film.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Koukol View Post
                              The graphic violence which is typical of slashers today EVOLVED from films like HALLOWEEN.
                              That only means HALLOWEEN is not a typical "slasher" film as we know them today but it's STILL a slasher film along with films like PSYCHO.
                              The "slasher sub-genre" was coined to describe the new trend that HALLOWEEN sparked.

                              Look up SLASHER FILM in any dictionary.
                              Actually, Friday the 13th really set the trend for all the slashers that followed, not Halloween. If Halloween was the biggest influence, then suspense would have been a selling points for all those subsequent knock-offs, not gore.

                              Also, just because you have a killer using a knife doesn't make it a slasher flick. Is M considered a slasher flick? Is Night of the Hunter? Night of the Generals?

                              Again, Friday the 13th was a far bigger influence on the slasher genre than Halloween was. Yes, Friday the 13th was was itself just a knock-off of Halloween, but when you look at the film, its relative cheapness, its second tier actors, and its heightened use of gore, it becomes quite clear that Friday, in spite of being a knock-off itself, was vastly more influential on what was to become the slasher genre than Halloween was.

                              And no, I don't have to look up the definition of slasher film in a dictionary because I as watching these films when they came out.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Robert W View Post

                                And no, I don't have to look up the definition of slasher film in a dictionary because I as watching these films when they came out.


                                ???
                                What does that have to do with anything?

                                I saw HALLOWEEN on it's opening weekend. (and HATED it!)

                                Sure F13 ARGUEABLY may have been a bigger influance on slashers to come but the term "slasher " was used before F13.

                                Not to be rude but do us a favour and look this stuff up...what's the harm?

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