HBO, Warners, DC. The WTF thread.

[Dom D Spoon! Find all posts View Profile Close Dom D]

Just reading a few articles about the unrelenting shitshow that is happening over at Warners right now with particular emphasis on the superhero side of things. When you look at how well Marvel/Disney have done with their inoffensive cookie cutter legion of superhero films it's hard to understand just how Warners managed to fuck this up so spectacularly.

The plan from the start was poor. Giving Snyder a free hand and rushing straight into Justice League teamups before introducing the team was an odd move but pretty much every move has been stupid. Some highlights:

- after the horrendous Batman Vs Superman Warners still gives Snyder the reins of Justice League even though they clearly by this point can't stand what he's doing.
- they put a cap of 2 hours on JL which is a multi hero team up and supposed to be DCs standard bearer. By contrast Shazams "Big" homage clocks in at a stately 132 minutes.
- they install Whedon who instantly makes an enemy of everyone.
- Cyborg actor gets into a running public argument with the studio ensuring there will be no Cyborg movies.
- they try to make a Flash movie but it sits on the shelves because the lead actor is charged with multiple crimes.
- they make a Batgirl movie but decide that it's better to NOT RELEASE IT and use it as a tax write off.
- this further damages their relationship with prospective filmmakers when the likes Nolan have already sworn off the studio due to HBO shenanigans.
- theres a total lack of clarity on a plan moving forward. Henry Cavill is sitting on the sidelines saying he'd like to make a Superman movie where Superman is, you know, vaguely heroic. No one's listening. There will be a third Wonder Woman but no one liked the second. There will be a second Joker! I don't know how they do that. There's no sequels of Taxi Driver and King Of Comedy for them to fleece. There will be Black Adam movie who no one but comic book nerds have ever heard of. The only thing they have going for them is a sequel to a 3 hour long Batman movie.

Meanwhile HBO Max should be the easiest sell in the world. You have the world's greatest film library meshed with HBOs television excellence. How do you fuck that up? Somehow they're not competing with Netflix, theyre competing with Paramount. Last month they removed 6 films from the service that were HBO originals seemingly again so that they could be written off for tax purposes.

It is hard to get your head around how the greatest of the Hollywood studios is somehow face planting with every single step they take.

[Ian Jane Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Ian Jane]

There's a lot of grumbling going around that they're removing and/or cancelling content so that they don't have to pay royalties to creators.

[Toyboy like a hole in the head Find all posts View Profile Close Toyboy]

I just heard someone explaining the decision to bury the BATGIRL movie as being a way to avoid an under-performing film scaring shareholders, and by "underperforming" they mean it was projected to only make half a billion dollars rather than a billion dollars. I guess that's what happens when your box office expectations reach that level - anything that doesn't have an insanely massive ROI is useless to these studios.

[Ian Jane Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Ian Jane]

They did just replace the guy responsible for the DC movies.

https://geekositymag.com/warner-bros...walter-hamada/

[Toyboy like a hole in the head Find all posts View Profile Close Toyboy]

To me, one of the advantages the Marvel properties have is that Stan Lee (and all the writers and artists that worked for/with him) had ambitions to turn those comics into film and TV from the very beginning so the groundwork for the MCU was laid decades ago. When Marvel Comics released their Ultimate Comics line in the early 00's that was very much an attempt to present these characters in a deliberately cinematic way. Those books read more or less as movies on paper (although I hate to make the comics/cinema connection since they're extremely different story telling mechanisms) and were "cast" with actors by using celebrities as reference, ie Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury, which in turn became the casting in the films, and Tom Cruise as Tony Stark/Iron Man. Obviously there were DC-based shows, serials and movies prior to the MCU's success but I think the core elements of those properties run the gamut from being outdated, to being too corny or the complete opposite and being too gritty. The DC universe is much muddier and more difficult to adapt and make connect in a satisfying way because it's hard to pinpoint an era to pull reference from. Not to say you can't make it work but the people WB got to try and make it happen clearly weren't up for the task.

That said, I think that now that the initial phases of the MCU have run their course and they're getting into the multiverse and trying to make things happen with lesser known IP like THE ETERNALS or SHANG-CHI that muddiness is creeping in there as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see a complete franchise reboot in 5-10 years starting over with a whole new IRON MAN, CAPTAIN AMERICA, THOR, etc...

[Ian Jane Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Ian Jane]

DC just needs to do another 'Crisis' event and fix everything.... oh wait.

[Dom D Spoon! Find all posts View Profile Close Dom D]

I just heard someone explaining the decision to bury the BATGIRL movie as being a way to avoid an under-performing film scaring shareholders, and by "underperforming" they mean it was projected to only make half a billion dollars rather than a billion dollars. I guess that's what happens when your box office expectations reach that level - anything that doesn't have an insanely massive ROI is useless to these studios.

There's a few rumours going round. There's a popular one that the film is too 'woke' and so needs to be hidden. I'm skeptical. Batgirl was a $90 million film not a $200 million film. I don't think anyone was expecting much from it. When you look at the corporate restructuring and the 'disappearing' of other Warner Originals the given explanation that it's for tax seems plaussible.

First article I saw this morning said that Warners/Discovery just had $20 billion wiped off it's value. Roughly half its worth.

[The Silly Swede Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close The Silly Swede]

From my perspective it looks like Warner put all their eggs in one basket, and tried to make HBO Max a Netflix rival, and when that backfired they are now scrambling to try and save their lives, thus rather writing of bad assets for more value then they could bring in if released.

[Darcy Parker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Darcy Parker]

I just heard someone explaining the decision to bury the BATGIRL movie as being a way to avoid an under-performing film scaring shareholders, and by "underperforming" they mean it was projected to only make half a billion dollars rather than a billion dollars. I guess that's what happens when your box office expectations reach that level - anything that doesn't have an insanely massive ROI is useless to these studios.

That's similar to Disney killing the insanely popular Infinity game series. The games sold really well, the toys-to-life figures sold insanely well and were really cool as collectibles, and Disney cancelled the whole thing and shut down the development team before everything announced for the third game came out. The explanation given was that he game was bringing in about 500 million a year in profits, but Disney wanted $1 billion a year or more, so hundreds of developers lost jobs and millions of fans saw the games die, even though it was very profitable.

Also, inside word was that the Batgirl movie looked like cheap, shitty streaming product, and it couldn't be improved in post. DC also has an acute problem of being known for the movies having an issue with being perceived as overblown crap due largely to Snyder's movies, or being low-budget and forgettable.

[James Reed Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close James Reed]

I've been trying to keep up with all the drama involved in the DC films and their stars, and for weeks I wanted to start a thread here, or add a comment to an existing thread (maybe the one for Justice League), but I didn't. I'm very confused. I've read one article that says the new head of Warner Discovery likes the Snyderverse, and today I read something else about the people at Warner Bros. being embarrassed about the Snyder cut of Justice League. I also read an article that said Dwayne Johnson, who plays Black Adam, said that putting Shazam and Black Adam in the same movie was a defamation of the Black Adam character. That pisses me off since Black Adam made his first appearance in "The Marvel Family" #1, featuring the original Captain Marvel, now known as Shazam. I can't believe I actually wasted my time watching some of Johnson's dumb action movies! I have no respect for this guy now. I don't like Ezra Miller, The Flash actor, either, after reading about all the various crimes he's been involved in. This is all a bit too crazy for me.

[Dom D Spoon! Find all posts View Profile Close Dom D]

I'm very confused. I've read one article that says the new head of Warner Discovery likes the Snyderverse, and today I read something else about the people at Warner Bros. being embarrassed about the Snyder cut of Justice League.

The standards of internet "journalism" are breathtakingly low and when you have something like this happening that touches on geek culture then they sink even lower. I was just reading a stupid article that was all about how even though Warner's isn't releasing Batgirl they could repurpose the movie as eight 20 minute tv episodes. Now I admit that my knowledge of US tax law isn't great but I really don't think they can write off those costs and then say to the taxman 'it's okay it's a tv show now. totally different thing.' I'm quite sure it doesn't work that way. Trying to find decent info is damned near impossible. It's interesting to have a look at Warner's upcoming release slate. For the rest of 2022 it's almost bare. There's that Chris Pine movie that looks alright and Black Adam. Otherwise there's nothing really on it. The shutters have gone up.

Apparently there's a Scooby Doo cartoon that's been disappeared as well though Warner's is supposedly paying to finish that one in case they change their mind later. Which seems out of keeping with the harsh measures so far, so who knows?

It appears that Batgirl was made to hype HBO and the incoming CEO doesn't believe expensive features do much for a streaming service which sounds right to me. No doubt Netflix knows their business better than I do but it seems strange to me that they think big movies are going to draw subscribers. Who takes out a monthly subscription because they want to watch Gray Man? Fuck that. Easier to pirate. On the other hand a whole season of Sandman, which is cheaper to make than The Gray Man, would seem to be an obvious draw. Certainly Sandman garners a much higher number of minutes watched according to Netflixs own numbers. It's a confusing business made doubly so by the fact that the people running the business don't seem too sure how it works themselves.

[James Reed Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close James Reed]

I'm not sure why, but I've been keeping up with with various things Warner Bros. / DC related. More animated TV series have been canceled, and no physical media for them beyond what has already been released are planned. Cartoon Network and WB Animation are now merging.

But what I hate the most is anything and everything connected to D. Johnson and his strong-arming of DC Films. Apparently he insisted on a Black Adam cameo in the animated Legion of Super Pets movie. And - SPOILER ALERT - he also insisted on a Henry Cavill cameo in the movie Black Adam. Which has made all the fans of the Zack Snyder movies overjoyed. Snyder started the DC Universe films with a dark Superman movie in which Superman actually defeated the villain General Zod by snapping his neck. Then in the sequel Batman v Superman we get a Batman with a poor attitude in need of a shave who tries to kill Superman. And the director's cut has a scene (based on what I've read, since I have not watched it) in which a man introduces himself as Jimmy Olsen before he is blown up! Then fans had to endure a 4 hour cut of Justice League, as if the 2 hour version of this movie wasn't bad enough. So now the icing on the cake for Snyder fans is the Superman cameo in the Black Adam movie, which I'm sure is a sign of more inanity to come. We'll never get a Shazam! vs. Black Adam movie (not that I care) because Johnson despises the character Shazam! And what strong-arming bully Johnson wants he gets.

[Dom D Spoon! Find all posts View Profile Close Dom D]

It is fucked up the way Warners is disappearing a bunch of programs. I kind of enjoyed Final Space and in a little bit it's going to be like it never existed. I see there's some posts online claiming that Warners is actually deleting people's purchases of Final Space but that appears to be bullshit. It's based on the say so of one guy who quickly disappeared and this stuff has always turned out to be bullshit when it's been claimed in the past. Still very fucked up that unless you've already bought Final Space already it's going to be impossible to see.

[Dom D Spoon! Find all posts View Profile Close Dom D]

Sounds like James Gunn has been given he keys to the DC kingdom. Not really a fan of Gunns films but then I'm not the target market. Seems like a surprisingly sensible choice: https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/25/...udios-ceo-dceu

[agent999 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close agent999]

Sounds like James Gunn has been given he keys to the DC kingdom. Not really a fan of Gunns films but then I'm not the target market. Seems like a surprisingly sensible choice: https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/25/...udios-ceo-dceu

He's certainly a better fit there than with Marvel. I really enjoyed The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker. The first Guardians film was good but couldn't stand the second. Hopefully DC have realised quirky works better than Snyder style pretension.