The Vinegar Syndrome Discussion Thread

[Rakesh R. Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rakesh R.]

There is no beastiality in Femmes de Sade.

There is a brief shot involving a dog during an orgy scene.

[Fundi Guest Find all posts View Profile Close Fundi]

There is a brief shot involving a dog during an orgy scene.

yeah most versions have this cut out, and I'm pretty sure VS would edit this out, and if customs got ahold of this print coming into the country they would probabaly seize it, just a guess, that maybe that's why Alpha France refuses to send it by mail service into the United States.

[Keith H Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Keith H]

There's already a pretty good remastered DVD of Femmes de Sade out there. I forget whose done it but it's much better than adequate. You can hear the dog bark but you don't actually see it !!

[Anthony A Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Anthony A]

Alpha France released Femmes de Sade in all its glory (dog scene included) several years ago and it looks amazing! It is on a double feature disc along with Waterpower and it looks fantastic too but it's cut. May be out of print, I'm not sure.

Anthony

[Keith H Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Keith H]

Ahh Yes Alpha France, but I don't remember the dog scene in it. Wonderful picture quality tho'.
They must have used that negative previous posts refer to.

[John Bernhard Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close John Bernhard]

Ready for my close up Mr de Renzy.

[Ian Jane Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Ian Jane]

So far as I know, the Alpha France Femmes de Sade is uncut. A dog does show up.

Screen caps from that release here.

Would love to see VS get their dirty mitts on this one.

[Thomas Wood Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Thomas Wood]

Alpha France wouldn't care if the negative was seized by customs since they know they would never see it again anyway. VS has made it clear that they feel they (or I should say the de Renzy estate) own it. As I said, the problem is that they feel de Renzy gave them the negative.

There's a number of scenes in the film that would cause problems. The ending is highly questionable (I know it's fake but that doesn't matter) and other scenes involving violence/rape are problematic. This is why the film was considered unreleasable after the crackdown on adult films in the mid 80s.

[Fundi Guest Find all posts View Profile Close Fundi]

well if he gave it to them, I can see why they consider it their's lol, and Alpha France obviously does car about the film being lost, or they would just throw the film in a trash can if they had no interest in it being preserved.

[John Lyons Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close John Lyons]

I feel like I should make some clarifications here before rumors become fact.

1) Alpha France very likely has the negative, however they might have given it to Mascotte Film (equally problematic for their dubious claims of ownership of deRenzy films in Germany; when I asked them to prove it, they stopped responding to emails).

2) It's not that AF has literally refused to return it, it's that they've simply been unresponsive, period.

3) As for why the negative was sent to Europe in the first place, it was very common practice for original negatives to be shipped internationally for prints (or dupes) to be made. It was unfortunately just as common for the originals not to be returned afterwards. Typically, Euro licenses were for theatrical rights only (especially considering this is a 1975 film, home video wouldn't have even been an option) and ran anywhere from 5-15 years.

4) If we ever get the negative, we will not cut the film. We've never censored a film and don't intend to start.

[Rakesh R. Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rakesh R.]

I feel like I should make some clarifications here before rumors become fact.

1) Alpha France very likely has the negative, however they might have given it to Mascotte Film (equally problematic for their dubious claims of ownership of deRenzy films in Germany; when I asked them to prove it, they stopped responding to emails).

2) It's not that AF has literally refused to return it, it's that they've simply been unresponsive, period.

3) As for why the negative was sent to Europe in the first place, it was very common practice for original negatives to be shipped internationally for prints (or dupes) to be made. It was unfortunately just as common for the originals not to be returned afterwards. Typically, Euro licenses were for theatrical rights only (especially considering this is a 1975 film, home video wouldn't have even been an option) and ran anywhere from 5-15 years.

4) If we ever get the negative, we will not cut the film. We've never censored a film and don't intend to start.

I appreciate the clarification John. Thanks. Messy situation, but I also look forward to seeing other Alex de Renzy titles from VS in the future.

[Randy G Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Randy G]

So far as I know, the Alpha France Femmes de Sade is uncut. A dog does show up.

Screen caps from that release here.

Would love to see VS get their dirty mitts on this one.

I have this and from what I remember the scene is suggested not shown, should be legal to show in the US.

I remember reading Lasse Braun say he bought a number of negatives that were struck of US films from Reuben Sturman. When I saw AF releases of mint condition prints of Femmes and Waterpower I assumed that these were some of the negatives mentioned. The US negative would be long gone for the reasons Thomas mentioned, only AF kept them in good condition as they have almost all their classic catalogue.

[enandalusiskhund An Andalusian Dog Find all posts View Profile Close enandalusiskhund]

I've seen a rip of the Alpha France DVD and it looks spectacular and indeed has the dog scene intact. If anyone knows where I could get hold of this legendary double feature of grim misogynism, please let me know.

On another note, I watched Wakefield Poole's Boys in the Sand yesterday, in honour of the Pride weekend going on in Stockholm, and I thought it was great. Seldom have I seen such tender, dreamy and romantic sex in straight porn. It's a film that oozes of freedom and joy. Having now seen both Boys in the Sand and Bijou, where do I further venture in the world of gay pornography?

[Ignatius Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ignatius]

On another note, I watched Wakefield Poole's Boys in the Sand yesterday, in honour of the Pride weekend going on in Stockholm, and I thought it was great. Seldom have I seen such tender, dreamy and romantic sex in straight porn. It's a film that oozes of freedom and joy. Having now seen both Boys in the Sand and Bijou, where do I further venture in the world of gay pornography?

I asked a similar question over at AV Maniacs a few years ago and got this list of suggestions from John Lyons himself:

Here are some crucial films in alphabetical order:
BIJOU (Wakefield Poole, 1972)
CONFESSIONS OF A MALE GROUPIE (Tom DeSimone, 1971)
CRUISIN' 57 (Toby Ross, 1975)
DESTROYING ANGEL (Peter DeRome, 1976)
DO ME EVIL (Toby Ross, 1976)
DRIVE (Jack Deveau, 1974)
EL PASO WRECKING CORP (Joe Gage, 1977)
EXPERIMENT, THE (Gorton Hall, 1973)
FALCONHEAD (Michael Zen, 1975)
GHOST OF A CHANCE (Gorton Hall, 1973)
GREEK LIGHTING (Warren Stephens, 1973)
HEATSTROKE (Joe Gage, 1982)
KANSAS CITY TRUCKING COMPANY (Joe Gage, 1976)
L.A. PLAYS ITSELF (Fred Halsted, 1972)
L.A. TOOL AND DIE (Joe Gage, 1979)
LIGHT FROM THE SECOND STORY WINDOW (David Allen)
PASSING STRANGERS (Arthur Bressan Jr., 1974)
PIER GROUPS (Arch Brown, 1980)
SEXTOOL (Fred Halsted, 1975)
THAT BOY (Peter Berlin, 1975)

I personally recommend grabbing a copy of The Erotic Films of Peter de Rome DVD released by the BFI. It's a collection of shorts that have a similar playfulness and sensitivity to Poole's early work, though it ocassionally veers into darker territory. Lots of great stuff there though, particularly the daring Underground and mythical Prometheus, the latter of which I consider one of the greatest short films ever made. And if you've got an Exploitation.TV subscription you absolutely have to watch the print of L.A. Plays Itself that's available there. The second half gets quite brutal, but the film itself is a masterpiece.

I can't give too many more personal recommendations - I still haven't had a chance to properly dive into most of the films on John's list, something I need to rectify soon - but I'm sure there are plenty of people around here who can give you more suggestions.

[agent999 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close agent999]

If anyone knows where I could get hold of this legendary double feature of grim misogynism, please let me know.

http://www.kultvideo.com/DVD.aspx/14...r?__lang=en-GB

However, I always take Kultvideo's availability status with a pinch of salt.